LDS Awakening

5 Responses

1. calimom — June 27, 2010 @ 9:31 pm —

   i read the article, but He lost me in his fervent defence of the gospel according to Brigham young – which I have come to believe is radically different from the one joseph smith helped initiate. plural marriage and the masonic temple ordinances were his doing and im not sure these days that he showed forth fruits of the spirit enough for me to believe he was a “true” prophet. (he even claimed not to be one) anyway, returning to brigham’s version of the church will not lead us to god, i don’t think. i don’t feel it. besides, the church probably won’t become more of what once was, but less and less until more and more members seek for more, as they should. Will they find that something more in another “church”? Nope. hopefully they/we can find it by progressing to the point where the dead ordinances are no longer necessary – only the principle behind those ordinances made manifest in ourselves. Hopefully we will no longer need to be bound by a corporation/organizational church, and instead each seek for god, each having the spirit guide and direct us in all things. i think these goals are what the prophet joseph was leading us to, but could only get as far as the members would allow him. in this i agree with the author of the article – we get the leaders/leadership/amount of knowledge we deserve! i often hear the recommendation that we should stay in the church to make a difference – help bring the restored gospel back. i guess we all have our own opinions on what that means. at this opint i too think that staying is helpful – not (imho) to change the church (i think as an organization that won’t happen in our lifetime) but to help those individuals with seeking souls recognize that all is not well in zion. im forever grateful for the members that helped me see that for myself and caused me to seek god and make discoveries and gain knowledge that i didn’t even think possible in this lifetime. weeping for zion was a huge part of my awakening! I remember when i first found this website, i was a bit frightened (worried) to even have the site open on my computer. why in the world would anyone “weep” for zion. but, i kept reading – and things i read here and elsewhere spoke to my soul and i felt a fervent love and excitement for the gospel of jesus christ that i hadn’t felt in years of just attending meetings and reading “approved” books/magazine (you know, being a true-blue ldsaint). seeking for more and for a clearer understanding of the scriptures has been a huge blessing to me.
   enough rambling…i too agree that we can never have enough resources so thank you for this and all your posts!
2. dave p. — June 28, 2010 @ 9:18 am —

   i was fairly skeptical about this at first given he opens up with calling section 132 “controversial” and going on about the “sacred necessity” of plural marriage, right after I’d read this: http://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2010/06/why-im-abandoning-polygamy.html

   but i kept reading and especially found heber c. kimball’s prophesy on page 15 the real clincher when the author talked about how the early bretheren saw salt lake city as becoming one of the most wicked cities in the world, especially in regards to “financial bondage” (a.k.a. debt). i live there and am seeing it happening so of course i paid much closer attention from that point on.

   another great example is how many people in the salt lake valley still defend “one of their own” (in terms of politics) despite their platforms of completely trashing our constitution. one of the most vile political figures still in office today has the gall to brag that he’s a member of the church. back before the ’08 election I applauded when i found out that one mitt romney was rejected down in st. george.
3. Steve graham — June 28, 2010 @ 5:15 pm —

   While many of his points are valid, he seems to be an apologist for the leaders of the church: All of the changes they made were because the sinful members demanded such. I’ve heard that before and I don’t believe it. samuel gave israel a king – not because they demanded it but because the lord commanded it. if the lord had not so done, he would not have given in to his brethren. now perhaps this is moot, because we get the same result regardless if the lord commanded it or the leaders simply made the changes on their own initiative. i don’t know. also i’m not sure what his point is. Does he want us to petition salt lake to bring back everything they’ve changed?
4. mj — July 11, 2010 @ 3:09 pm —

   calimom, I have been studying church history intently for years… Joseph restored celestial plural marriage way before Brigham. It is not “brighams philosphies”. see http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org – he had over 32 wives himself. It is also biblical, moses, abraham, jacob/israel had 4 wives himself and bore the 12 sons thru different mothers. Joseph simply came to restored that which has been, and that which the gods themselves live and enjoy. We have gone on with the wicked world, seems we have helped turn something so holy, so pure, into something of naught. It is a celestial law, just as all the other laws of the gospel god told joseph to restore, and this church was commissioned to maintain. just my few cents for the day… please do the research for yourself.
   mj
5. calimom — August 11, 2010 @ 10:21 pm —

   mj.
   i just noticed your comment today! i appreciate all the studying of church history you have done. we have probably read many of the same books! i too find church history to be an endlessly fascinating topic of study. but, what i’ve come to realize over time is that we can never know the whole story of any history. dozens of historians can write dozens of books about such a thing as polygamy, yet they are limited by a small amount of documentation on which they base all their claims! when you really look at where that documentation comes from, it becomes very clear, to me anyway, that it is from some very suspect circumstances and questionable sources, controlled by one specific source who had a great deal riding on polygamy being a true principle.

   i long ago rejected what we have been taught about section 132 of our d&c. there may have once been a prophesy it was loosely based on, but the evidence seems pretty persuasive that it was in the least added to and may have even been entirely made up. of coarse there are other “evidences” of polygamy being taught by joseph smith, so for many years i was ok with the idea that joseph was just wrong about introducing polygamy. by the way, Realizing that prophets can be wrong, even in such a great way, led me to give up my idol worship of prophets and that has been a h-u-g-e blessing in my life. (have you read http://threewatches.blogspot.com/2008/08/for-behold-he-cometh-in-first-watch-of.html? He has some really interesting ideas about why joseph taught polygamy. i find great truths and amazing scriptural knowledge from his blog, but don’t quite agree with just a few of his conclusions regarding polygamy.) years later i came to believe that joseph probably saw aspects of our eternal progression and misunderstood them to be plural marriage – the closest correspondence of such things during his time. if he ever did get sealed to “over 32 wives”, which i doubt, i think it was more about all of us becoming one as we should become one with Christ and as christ has become one with heavenly father. my most recent read has been incredibly interesting because of the info that is rarely, if ever, a part of any discourse of the subject. i found the book thru the blog http://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2010/06/why-im-abandoning-polygamy.html. the book is “joseph smith fought polygamy”. you may not agree with all of the author’s conclusions, but i bet you will find much of their most extensive research eye opening. i sure did. it seems pretty plausible to me that joseph did fight polygamy – legitimately, not just to put up a front to save himself from some persecution! Anyway, i’m guessing that if you truly love researching the topic, you may appreciate these sources. cheers!